NSCA’s Coaching Podcast Special Episode – Being an Inclusive Leader with Matt Frakes, Bryan Doo, and Co-Host Jon Jost

Matt Frakes, Director of Sports Nutrition at Notre Dame Athletics, and Bryan Doo, former Head Strength and Conditioning Coach of the Boston Celtics National Basketball Association (NBA) team and owner of Optimal Fitness, join as guests with the NSCA Coaching and Sport Science Program Manager, Eric McMahon. Also returning is guest co-host Jon Jost, a 27-year veteran college strength and conditioning coach and the Team Sports Manager for Gatorade. This Gatorade Performance Partner Special Episode highlights the value of being an inclusive leader; the current level of support for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives across the performance community; and how to foster inclusivity within your programs.

Find Matt on Twitter: @SuperiorFrakes or Instagram: @superiorfrakes | Find Bryan on Twitter: @bdoo22 or Instagram: @bdoostrength | Find Jon via email: jonathan.jost@pepsico.com | Find Jon on Twitter/Instagram/Facebook: | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or Twitter: @ericmcmahoncscs

“People say you have to meet them where they are but then bring them to where you want to go. As a leader, I think my vision is what needs to be seen, the responsibility of making the decisions and so forth. But also making sure that I see where they're coming from to help them, guide them, and see if they actually can get to that vision.” 2:53

“I have to get buy-in from the players. I have to get their trust. If they don't trust me, if they don't do it, we can't get anything done.” 11:19

“You've got to throw in sometimes in respect to their culture and their background those type of foods.” 19:50

“Life is really about relationships, and it doesn't matter what background someone else has. You can learn an awful lot from them. And they can enrich your life, and you can enrich their life.” 33:05

“Because it can't be seen as the elephant in the room. It has to be something that has to be seen as a standard that we address, and that we ensure that we are fitting. And it's just a normal thing that we are looking towards as far as that we have a part because we have a diverse team. So we need to have a diverse unit and diverse staff as well.” 1:06:02

[00:00:00.63] Welcome to this special-edition episode of the NSCA Coaching Podcast.

[00:00:06.06] I think to be an inclusive leader, I think you hear it often when people say you have to meet them where they are, but then bring them to where you want to go.

[00:00:14.74] This is the NSCA's Coaching Podcast where we talk to strength and conditioning coaches about what you really need to know but probably didn't learn in school. There's strength and conditioning, and then there's everything else.

[00:00:25.36] Welcome to the NSCA Coaching Podcast. I'm Eric McMahon. Today, we're joined by Matt Frakes, Bryan Doo, and Jon Jost. Matt is the director of sports nutrition at the University of Notre Dame and works directly with the football team. Matt, you guys are in season right now? Thanks for making the time to come on.

[00:00:42.24] I appreciate you, my man. Go Irish.

[00:00:44.58] Bryan, you're a long-time NBA strength and conditioning coach. 14 seasons with the Boston Celtics, and now you're working for a company that you founded, Optimal Fitness, based out of the Boston area. You bring a lot of different experiences into the conversation today. It's great to have you with us.

[00:01:01.36] Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I love to bring some experience to this conversation.

[00:01:06.90] And this being a special Gatorade performance partner collaboration episode of the NSCA Coaching Podcast, let's welcome back 27-year veteran college strength and conditioning coach and today's co-host, Jon Jost, who is the team sports manager for Gatorade. Coach Jost, you just got back from a little Colorado vacation. How'd that go?

[00:01:29.11] It was fantastic. Well, that state, it's great to get away and do some hiking, and biking, and recharge in nature. And it is a pleasure to be on with you and with Bryan and Matt. So I'm really looking forward to this.

[00:01:46.53] Great. So today, we're going to talk about leadership and specifically the role that leaders have in creating an inclusive environment for everyone they're working with. To get the conversation going, I want to give you both, Matt and Bryan, a chance to speak to what being an inclusive leader means to you? Matt, why don't you kick this thing off?

[00:02:10.67] Yeah. For me, being an inclusive leader is the ability to manage my team in respect to the diversity that the community portrays and the ability to manage that team and execute based upon all the different needs that my team has. Based on their background as well. So that is my simple definition of it.

[00:02:38.22] It's a lot more complex than that, and we'll get more into it with this podcast episode. But for me, that's what that is.

[00:02:47.91] Awesome. Bryan, what do you think?

[00:02:50.26] I think to be an inclusive leader, I think you hear it often. People say you have to meet them where they are but then bring them to where you want to go. As a leader, I think my vision is what needs to be seen, the responsibility of making the decisions and so forth. But also making sure that I see where they're coming from to help them, guide them, and see if they actually can get to that vision.

[00:03:17.05] And maybe using some of their experience to change the way we get to the vision. I think as well as being an inclusive leader for the staff, but it's also for the athletes you work with. Same thing, I believe, going, seeing where they are, and then bringing them up.

[00:03:34.06] Coach Jost, I've heard you say that inclusive means everybody. So when you think about leadership, how important is inclusivity to the leadership process?

[00:03:48.19] I believe it's absolutely critical, and I guess there are really, in my mind, two parts of it. One is being inclusive of-- including a lot of different backgrounds and people with different points of views into the leadership process. And by that, I mean being a great listener. I always felt like it was extremely important to surround myself with a diverse group of people that I really trust, and value, and give them a voice, and listen to their point of view, and give them input.

[00:04:36.56] And at the end of the day, it's the leader's responsibility to ultimately make the final decision. Whatever is being considered, whatever needs-- Bryan talked about vision. Whether that's a vision or whether that's one specific decision that has to be made to a particular situation, but surrounding yourself with a diverse group of people and listening to them.

[00:05:09.35] I don't know how you can have an impact on a large group of people and be a great leader without those two things. Especially when you think about so many people think of leadership as leading in one direction. But the reality is if you take a look at Matt's position at Notre Dame, he's leading a group of student athletes.

[00:05:34.15] He's leading his staff in the direction that they need to go as a department, and he's also leading the administration in that he's developing a program and growing the sports nutrition program at Notre Dame, so there are so many facets to that leadership. And when you factor all of that in, you better surround yourself with a lot of diversity. You better include a lot of people and their voices in that decision if you really want to be impactful.

[00:06:16.42] And I would love to pull it over to Matt a little bit and just ask him. When you lay it out like that, and you look at your student athletes, your staff, and your administration, I'd really be interested to hear the different factors that you are considering. And what specific ways you're implementing inclusivity to your staff and your leadership style at Notre Dame?

[00:06:55.51] Oh man, that's a phenomenal question. So to be honest, so the first part is with me being in this newly appointed position and as far as when it comes to the department standpoint. So with my staff, the department, and the program in itself, it's taking in consideration one, learning my staff. I had to retain one individual from the turnover as well.

[00:07:21.50] So understanding as far as the background and history of what's been already laid out and then also understanding as far as the type of student athletes that we work with and the type of people I work with too. So for the Department standpoint, it's been looking at the overarching view of OK, what are we dealing with? Who are we dealing with? What are their characters? What are their personalities? And I'm very personable, so I love having conversations and talking more than just on nutrition in itself.

[00:07:54.29] So a lot of my conversations as well with me first getting here in May and almost in the middle of kicking off with football is trying to learn my head coach, my admin here, the director of ops. Everyone in my staff and the coaching staff and also with my associate director and the Olympic sports side with the admin I report to as well. Trying to figure out OK, working with them and also meeting with them to talk more than on what am I able to do?

[00:08:24.74] They know what I'm capable of. They know my background, and they want to know more of what I'm able to do. So learning them on a personal level. So taking that consideration, and then when it comes to the student athletes, almost doing the same thing. I'm a new face. They're not going to listen to anything I say unless they know who I am. Unless they understand where I'm coming from.

[00:08:46.19] So at first, it was more so again, trying to understand them and learn who they are. And this is a completely different background than what I'm used to as well, especially from what I grew up around and also from what I was exposed to as a student athlete. As far as their academics, it's very rigorous here. As far as also just you have a larger melting pot, if you will, of individuals.

[00:09:13.03] But the type of student athlete that our coach brings in is very driven, type A, and it's somewhat different than what I've been exposed to the other institutions I've been at compared to University of Mississippi, or Louisville, or University of Louisiana. So I had to take into consideration as far as OK, who wasn't the personality or the style of individual that the coach brings in? The personality and style of the individual of the staff that he brings in as well? And the admin brings in? And just trying to figure out how can I best-- and adapt myself to best serve them?

[00:09:52.34] That really makes me think a lot about years on the professional side. I know Bryan, you can speak to that quite a bit. How have you adapted your coaching style to different viewpoints, backgrounds, and the goals of the players you worked with for so many years?

[00:10:09.21] Yeah, it's interesting hearing what Matt has to say. It reminds me of why I'm not in college sports. It was much easier for me, I believe, in pro sports because the number of people that I have to deal with is so few compared to a football team. But I think one of the harder things is the amount of money that each athlete's worth puts a little more stress and gives them a little more power than they should probably have.

[00:10:40.77] But yeah, I think one of the major differences are things that I think in pro sports is like you said, you have to deal with the administration. For us, it's has to deal with the coach, and if the coach doesn't value what you do, then you're dead no matter what you try. But the most important thing in the whole thing--

[00:10:58.54] And this is where I think I got me in a little trouble in the beginning when I was younger. --was I knew if I didn't get the players buy-in, then it didn't even matter if I had the coaches-- Coach and I were on the same page. So I tended to be a player guy at first but making sure the coach understood look.

[00:11:19.05] I have to get buy-in from the players. I have to get their trust. If they don't trust me, if they don't do it, we can't get anything done. If I get to Miami, and we want to do a yoga session before they go out at night, well, if I don't have that trust, there's no way we're doing it. Or if I need to get some conditioning in New York City before the nightlife starts, that trust has been really a major, major, major thing.

[00:11:41.76] And their backgrounds coming from different family types, no father, no mother, raised by their grandparents, or coming from a coach that was a dad that was a coach that played pro sports. It's figuring out each person. What makes them tick? And I think really trying to understand that and taking the time to really focus on how does that person respond to criticism? How does that person see their goal on the team? Where's their value? And trying to meet them there.

[00:12:13.59] I think a great story it was different. When you have players that get drafted there, they're stuck with you. But when we traded for KG, he's already been a league All-Star. He's already been an MVP of the league, so it was different. His routines, he had his things that he did the way he liked to do things.

[00:12:35.62] And so the first couple of weeks I'm like I'm feeling pretty good about like oh yeah, this is great. We got [INAUDIBLE] I'll be able to change his body. And I'm a big film guy, so I like to watch film and see how they move. I'm a big movie pattern guy. And so he comes in, and we talk. I'm like Kev, what do you do? He tells me what he does. We start going.

[00:12:50.80] I'm like OK, cool. We're going to do this. He's like no, man. You didn't hear me. This is what I do. And I said yeah, I got you. I got you. This is what you do. I got you, but we're going to have this. Look, here's the film. Here's the background. And he goes hey man, slow down man. This is how I do things. I do things this way. I don't know who you are or what you think you're doing. I'm a league MVP. Let me do my thing. I said OK, cool, cool, cool. I hear you. I hear you.

[00:13:14.28] So anyway, so a week goes by. I'm like next week I got him. The same conversation. I finally said he's not changing. He is stubborn as a mule. So I got to get my job done, so what I did was I changed the warm-up. I started doing all the movement patterns that he needed and all the guys could use during the warm-up.

[00:13:34.66] So then the conversation became all right Kev, look. We're getting stuff in. The issue here is I don't want to see that you-- I have a feeling like you're at-risk, and I got to tell you you're at-risk. This is my job. I know you're doing your job. I'm doing my job. And the biggest thing that happened for our relationship was he actually got hurt. He pulled an ab muscle, which I had told them the week before I thought was a weakness of his.

[00:13:58.47] So luckily, that happened, which stunk for two weeks. But next thing I know, I'm on a plane with him going to the All-Star Game. We're doing all the workouts there. He's like you're coming over here. Now he's got the trust. He trusted that I believed in him, that I let him do his things. I was professional enough to keep telling him that I needed to do-- what he needed to get done. And then he's seeing the application. I think, again, finding where you need confined and just gaining that trust.

[00:14:28.16] That's awesome. That's a great illustration of gaining that trust and meeting them where they are and then being ultimately able to have an impact. And I think both Bryan and Matt, you touched upon meeting each individual where they are and figuring out what makes each individual tick.

[00:14:59.14] And obviously, all those individuals add up to a team. And one thing that we have heard over and over in sports is culture is king, and somehow, someway, you need to take all those individuals and help develop a championship culture. Whether it's right or wrong, it is, as a practitioner, as a strength and conditioning coach, as a sports dietician, you're part of helping develop and build that championship culture.

[00:15:36.52] And so that leads me to my question for both Matt and Bryan. What are some of the ways that you've helped take an extremely diverse group of people-- As Bryan said, whether they're raised by their mother, or raised by their father, or their grandparents, their background in both situations. Definitely at Notre Dame, you have people that are literally from all over the world. So how do you take that diverse group of individuals and help them come together to align towards a collective goal?

[00:16:18.32] So I'll throw it out. Matt, I'm always putting you on the spot. I'm going to go with you.

[00:16:23.20] Bomb. Bombs. Throwing bombs. Go, Matt.

[00:16:27.13] I don't throw any soft balls to you guys. Come on.

[00:16:30.61] I got three prime examples. So I've already started with this year. I'm going to illustrate like Bryan did just a tad bit. So one of them was-- So we have four players currently right now that are of Samoan or Polynesian descent. So one thing we have with them that I wanted to do was highlight as far as their food, their culture because within our field, we stigmatize and demonize a lot of foods that don't need to be in that situation at all whatsoever.

[00:16:59.20] And plus, to be honest with you, before we even had a career or anything like that, it's been people that's been performing phenomenally on hot dogs and beer. So with that being said, so with these individuals, one thing that we did was they had one cuisine that they wanted to highlight and show was musubi, I believe. Which is a dish that had rice, seaweed, spam, somewhat like a sushi-type ordeal.

[00:17:26.98] Me growing up, when I saw spam, I couldn't even afford spam. So we had a treat, and when we had that, we put that on grilled cheese sandwiches, and that was all we could do. So it was a new way. And now I feel cheated because if I had musubi, my parents, we were going to have a lot better way. But it was good, and that's one of those distinct ways of people to stop when it comes to looking at a particular food and saying how it's made or what it is.

[00:17:53.62] They thrive off of that, and it's a treat for them. And it's a quality food and substance for them that's part of their culture. So we got to stop being in that situation to stop doing that, of demonizing or stigmatize a particular food. Another one is, as far as when it comes to training table-- So our training table was essentially basically that meal for our team that we had that's provided for after practice or whatever it may be.

[00:18:25.55] And one of the things I try to look at when we have our menus with our chef is go over from everybody that I've spoken with, from the assessments I've done with Everyone. before I got here, I just got a taste preference what type of foods they like, all that stuff. And put in that consideration when building out the menus. And seeing as far as OK, do we need to have a particular night as far as their highlights on the buffet line some type of foods? Based upon everyone's different backgrounds and rotating that.

[00:18:56.53] So giving them what they need, giving them as far as to respect of the different cultures as well, so everyone can experience that. And then another thing was having for postgame, asking them, if we're going to a separate location, or Chicago, or things like that, asking my players from Chicago what is a good meal? What's the best place out there that I can get for you guys after the game?

[00:19:20.89] Because it's all about the timing as far as when you get these particular foods, too. And you can argue as much as you want are those are inflammatory foods? Yada, yada, yada. It's that and a third. Whatever. They're going to perform well. They're going to recover well as long as you balance everything you're doing, and they're buying in from the day-to-day outside of your visual standpoint. And they're bought into the education that you're doing, and they're doing those practices away from you.

[00:19:47.20] So that's what matters most, but you've got to stop. You've got to throw in sometimes in respect to their culture and their background those type of foods. So for me, as far as to-- We touch on that, and the coaching staff touched with that too. And they got to see that visually. They see a diverse coaching staff as well.

[00:20:03.79] I'm probably only one of two as far as Black male dieticians that holds a director spot in the entire country. So they visually see that, and they visually see as far as their defensive coordinator being a Black male, too, going out there. So it's just like as far as them visually seeing around them the diversity and not just discussing or having conversations about it. But they have to see it, too.

[00:20:30.97] And for us, we actually try to do that. We try to make an effort to make sure everyone is having some sort of respect, too, with what they have to bring to the table in our respective fields. Whether that's in the recovery and rehab or whether that's, for me, it's food and culture. Because it's very personable, and it's very personal. So adding that into the table when I got into the menu with some shape before.

[00:20:54.87] I think, to me, the culture that was most important to me was accountability, holding these guys accountable. And people say oh yeah, accountability. That's common, but it's not common in the NBA. It's not common in pro sports.

[00:21:11.85] There's a lot of people before that I just hear stories about of-- For instance, there was a player back in the day that wasn't on our team. And he comes to our team after getting traded and was like-- He's like, hey, can I get the same deal I had at my last place? And I was like what deal is that? He said well, I gave him a lot of money, a lot of credit towards one of the sponsors, and I get my lifts in just twice a week.

[00:21:37.83] This is way back, and it's like really? And he's like yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like no. We're not doing that. I go because I care about you. He's like no, no, I can do this. It's good. I'll get my list. So in theory, it sounds good that everyone wants to learn accountable, but to do it is 100% heart. Difficult. It's just difficult, difficult.

[00:21:58.71] And the one thing that we did was if you're late, you're riding five miles. And then there's a video of the players talking about how the program was at some point, and everyone comes back. What was the hardest thing to do? Five mile ride. Five mile ride. Five mile ride. And that's what everyone wants to complain about because as sprinters and athletes, they just want to just get done with it.

[00:22:19.15] So this is a simple thing of I showed up late one time, put my bike right on the court while they were practicing, rode my five miles. It's just in there with them doing that and knowing that. But also creating a light heartedness of like you said that I care. So hard day, comes in.

[00:22:37.32] Nobody wants to do anything, but you know what? It didn't matter. I already planned breakfast club. Let's go. We're all getting breakfast. Forget the lift. We got breakfast. Let's talk about this. What's going on in your life? What's going on in your life? What's going on in your life? Hit the right times and try to do that.

[00:22:51.34] And then even stupid things like music, creating a culture of music. It's one guy that always wants to dominate the radio. Now you see that. Probably one group of guys want to dominate that radio. So you've got to mix it up. And I don't know if we can say this, but it's like white boy Wednesdays. And so that was the day we got to listen to the pop music. We got to listen to country. Whatever that is.

[00:23:13.53] And so just stupid stuff like that. Guys came in like oh, come on, man. Is it Wednesday? They know what day it is. So accountability and then trying to get to where they are again and making it lighthearted. So that's the culture that I used to try to create, and I wanted to make sure they knew that I had their back. And I was with them, but we're also going to work hard. But we're going to have fun doing it.

[00:23:41.23] I want to jump back to the beginning a little bit for you guys, and Matt, you spoke a little bit to this just in maybe how unique your role is for someone with a diverse background. And early in your career, did you have any leaders that you looked up to that were from diverse backgrounds or unique backgrounds? And how did you think that impacted your career goals and trajectory?

[00:24:11.11] Well, I'll be honest with you. I'm [INAUDIBLE] no. I had to rely on myself as far as people that look like me don't have my role at all whatsoever. So it was a lot of me having to-- and it wasn't great because it was a lot of me learning how to adapt from other individuals from different backgrounds. And that was my first taste of having to do so because there was no one that I could look to or towards from complications or questions that I had from frustrations or situations that I had personally.

[00:24:48.41] And that's because that's just not within our field as far as we have a non-diverse-- Honestly, at sports dieticians, I think the majority of them are predominantly white females. So with that being said, especially in my classes, most of my professors, I had one male, Dr. Joe. Rest his soul, but he was one of the persons that I looked up to the majority of time at my time at Bowling Green as a student athlete going throughout this field.

[00:25:18.57] So with that being said, as far as in diverse, it was more so of me being exposed to different people in different ways and different backgrounds and I'm not used to. As far as me looking up to, it was a lot of stuff I had to learn on my own and learn from other individuals from other settings. So from strength and conditioning or from athletic training.

[00:25:41.01] They may look like me or came from the similar background I came from that I had to look to, and that also allowed me to be able to have that unison or be able to work with individuals as far as outside of my particular profession and had that communication. Because that's the only people that I could go towards and work with and work towards because they're the only people that I could relate to.

[00:26:04.61] And it was a good thing because of the simple fact of it brought also my particular situation in my field that they might not have been exposed to. And complications are learning from. But as far as answering your question, as far as leaders in mind, no. But in others, there was a ton. There was a ton.

[00:26:28.82] And a prime example is Dr. Pat Ivey there back in Louisville when I was in Louisville at the time. Bouncing off of him with just that short time of being there and seeing him rise in the ranks as well. And looking at that and just seeing other admins or seeing other strength and conditioning coaches or other coaches as well that have similar backgrounds to me.

[00:26:52.64] That I could look to see what they're doing on social media. Or shoot a quick DM, or shoot a quick text, or shoot a quick phone call towards and seeing if I could get an outside perspective on how to handle a particular thing. Or how to continue in my pathway.

[00:27:08.76] It's really good advice, looking outside of just your direct area in the field and looking for guidance and support. And I think there's definitely a voice of that in the field right now of even as far as business skills and other things that we look to and try to incorporate those ideas into our coaching practices. But in terms of mentorship, and leadership, and just having people to look up to, there's a lot of value to looking outside.

[00:27:40.95] Bryan, how are we doing on the strength and conditioning side? What are your thoughts on this?

[00:27:48.64] It's silly, but I never even noticed that-- I never realized-- I don't know if anyone knows, but I'm Chinese and Hawaiian. But if you talk to me, you'd never know because I grew up in a predominantly Jewish town. And so, I got to be honest, I never thought that I was diverse. I didn't think about it. I never thought anything. I thought of myself as a strong, educated man that was going to join the field, the ranks, of conditioning and strength.

[00:28:17.74] And so I think more so getting into the NBA and seeing that made me realize wow, there is a lot of change and struggle. And hearing the stories from all the other great strength coaches in the NBA. You're hearing all the different issues and all the different things they went through to get there.

[00:28:36.34] A guy named Robert Hack, who I used to talk to him when he was in Dallas. And he'd just tell me about-- he's like man, I struggled for years just trying to even get a job, and I was way more qualified than half the people. And it's just like yeah. I just didn't realize that I never felt that. And so I guess I am lucky that way. I didn't have to go through that.

[00:28:56.57] But just listening to the stories in the NBA and hearing all the other guys and what they went through, it makes me appreciate that. And that's why when I would interview for assistants and interns, it's like OK. Just tell me what you're going through. Tell me what's going on. Let's try to find a way to get.

[00:29:14.38] One of the interns I hired, he had no background in this. And I said you know what? You have the most caring heart, and you have the most intensely-- You have the most intense desire to learn. I can use you. I'll give you that chance. No one else gave me that chance. I'll give you that chance. And so I think it's helped me to be a better leader that way myself. Again, starting with those, but then recognizing it and learning that is out there.

[00:29:45.30] I do think the diversity thing is that in the NBA, when you're 5'6", and you're looking at these [INAUDIBLE] guys. They're like what can you teach me? The big thing is that I would always do the stuff with them, and show them that I'm not as athletic as any of them. I think Rondo would put on record. He would put on record that he would only do his deal to work with me because I was the only that could keep with him.

[00:30:14.31] And so that's what I hang my hat on. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. There's a good story out there. You can ask. If you talk to Paul Pierce or Gary Payton about somebody losing a lot of money from me dunking a tennis ball. So find that story.

[00:30:30.15] Bryan!

[00:30:32.88] That's awesome. Coach Jost, you want to jump in on this one?

[00:30:37.08] Yeah. It's really interesting listening to both Bryan and Matt, and I would say that I'm very similar in that. When I think back to who I learned from, and my mentors, and through my career, unfortunately, I can't say that I've had a lot of diversity as far as my personal leaders or mentors.

[00:31:15.75] But from Coach Osborne at University of Nebraska to Coach Bowden at Florida State. I'm a huge John Wooden fan, and all three of them have a lot in common. And that is they're very-- have unbelievable amount of integrity, have very strong faith, and the way that they treat others is with an incredible amount of kindness and respect.

[00:31:50.85] And I remember if you read any of John Wooden's stuff that comes out, I highly recommend to those who are listening. If you haven't read any of his stuff, it's timeless principles that he teaches. And from Coach Osborne to Coach Bowden, I can remember with Coach Bowden showing up at 5:30, 6 o'clock in the morning.

[00:32:20.28] And Coach Bowden and I would pull in the parking lot at the same time, and he would hold the door open for the custodian who is coming off the night shift exiting the building, and stand there, and talk to him for five to 10 minutes.

[00:32:37.14] And that's the way he treated everybody. Whether you were the quarterbacks coach, the starting quarterback, or a professor that happens to be on campus walking towards class, another student, the custodian coming off the night shift. And there's an incredible lesson to be learned from that, and that is it's all about relationships.

[00:33:05.94] Life is really about relationships, and it doesn't matter what background someone else has. You can learn an awful lot from them. And they can enrich your life, and you can enrich their life. And I think that that's something that just through observation and just others modeling me that I've learned, and I really, really tried to do. And I think it's something that, again, is super important.

[00:33:50.37] So I wish that I had more diversity as a young person growing in the field, but it was awesome to see the hero of these, again, specifically two older white gentleman that really treated everybody with respect. And it didn't matter what their background was, and that was a great lesson for me.

[00:34:23.65] One thing that really jumps out. You can go back to something Matt said earlier, was diversity provides us perspective on what we're doing. And if our only perspective is coming out of the essentials text or coming out of just our own views and thoughts, then we're very-- It's a siloed thought process.

[00:34:47.60] Another thing from you, Coach Jost, treating people well regardless of their role in the program or their status within the program. Whether it's the custodian or the GM, it doesn't make a difference. Treating people well, that will fare you well as a professional, as a human being forever.

[00:35:12.32] And something I speak to a lot, and I think we've all had this probably at different stages in our career, is our profession-- And specifically the strength and conditioning profession, we could do a lot better job of being more welcoming to-- We say young coaches, but I see it as future leaders in the field.

[00:35:31.66] And we've always put a pretty high bar up of the standards they need to come in the door with, or they need to hit the ground running and act the right way. Well, we might need to teach them that. We might need to model that for them, and that, when we talk being inclusive, a lot of that is our modeling of certain behaviors. And Coach Jost, you really touched on that for me.

[00:35:56.18] So this brings us to a theme that we get to a lot on this podcast. There's always this catalyst for coaches that hey, why did I get into this profession? A lot of times, it could be a person that inspires you. It could be an experience. A lot of coaches have an injury or a setback.

[00:36:15.47] These are really great stories because they show that as a field, we typically have a lot more similarities than differences, and sometimes, we focus a little too much on those differences on the way in. I think it's really encouraging for young coaches listening to hear they are part of a coaching community. They're part of a performance community, and I want to--

[00:36:41.06] Bryan, we'll start with you. I think we've been going to Matt first most of the time. What inspired you to get into strength and conditioning? And just tell us your story.

[00:36:53.31] To be honest, I've told this a bunch of times, but I fell into strength and conditioning. I didn't desire strength and conditioning. I wasn't, in my mind, born to do strength and conditioning, in my mind, because every test that I took was I need to be in business. Every test, every offer that I got was hey, go to college.

[00:37:16.27] I had a job offer before I started college from my cousin. He said look, you go to Northeastern, do a five-year plan. I promise you $80,000 right out of the gate. And to me growing up, again, with not much-- maybe not much. I was like oh my gosh. There's no way I should do anything but this.

[00:37:34.10] But a friend of mine who I went to church with had always had a plan for me in his mind. And so to me, I was a middle kid that just looked for somebody to buy interest in me. And so he said to me, he goes hey, why are you even considering all these other colleges? You're going to school with me. I said really? He said yeah. I said OK.

[00:37:59.45] So I dropped all these business schools that I got into, and I went to a school called Messiah College. We roomed together the first year. He's a year older than me, and he said you should do this. And the same thing happened. The wrestling coach said God told me that you need to wrestle here. I was like OK. It's like these kind of things. And I was very easily influenced because I just wanted someone to buy into me and believe in me.

[00:38:25.55] But the funny part of the story is that he, after we roomed together, we realized we cannot room together. We decided that we can't room together because we started hating each other. And because he was you got to study. You got to get this. You stay up in the wee hours of the morning. You're just hanging out. I'm getting my work done. I'm getting A's. Who cares? And it's like he wanted a certain specific thing.

[00:38:50.12] Anyways, it comes back to that I'm at the school, and this college professor says hey, you should do this. You should consider doing some of the exercise science stuff, and I was like well, I think I'm going to be a teacher now because I was in the business. I had a business minor, but I just didn't know where I was going. And so he was like I think you should do this. He's like you'd be really good at this. A first year of program's going to do it. So you should consider doing it.

[00:39:16.01] So I said all right. So I changed over. I went to athletic training. And then I realized I couldn't play sports anymore, so I got out of athletic training, went to exercise physiology. And so I did that. And then so I think what all this stuff leads back to is that I actually now believe I was born to do this. I look back at my diverse things that I've gone through.

[00:39:41.28] So for instance, I got recruited for soccer in high school, so I got some financial aid to play soccer. But when I got there, the football coach is like now you're playing football. And I played Sovarian Brothers. So actually, I was there when Matt Hasselbeck was there and a couple of guys. So it's like we were a real football program.

[00:39:59.88] So I was like I'm playing football. So I played football. And then I wrestled there, and then I played baseball my first two years. And I dropped baseball, and I was the captain of the volleyball team for two years. And I played middle hitter at 5'6". People tell me I can't do things but also just all these different sports.

[00:40:14.82] So I finished that. I got to college. I picked up lacrosse in college. I was an All-Star at lacrosse at the college level. I ended up doing really well. After college, I ended up playing ultimate frisbee because I was training a kid that was playing ultimate frisbee. I made the US team, then I went and played for US representing Hawaii.

[00:40:32.12] I'm just saying it's not to make myself raise my ego. What I'm saying is that I ended up doing all these things, so I can understand every athlete that I work with. So I was born to do this because when I work with my athletes or I find any person, my biggest thing is hey, I believe in you. I had no direction. I want to lead you.

[00:40:51.88] So when people say oh, your best times must be in the NBA. And I was like no, some of my best times were my college athletes where these kids that were like hey, my parents make me do this and so forth. I was like well, you know what? This is what I think you should do. This is how you have the conversation. These are the kind of things you do.

[00:41:08.17] And so what led me into this were the people that believed in me like Dr. Miller, who said you know what? I'm seeing you. You're running around. You're doing all this stuff. This is what you need to do. You really should be analogous. This is where your mind thinks, or the coaches just saying hey, you know what? Maybe you should do this sport, or maybe you should do that.

[00:41:31.22] And so it's convoluted the whole thing I just said, but I think, to me, the thing that got me into this field was all the struggle that I had internally that somebody finally said to me you can do this in this field. You can help people. You can use your experience. You can use your knowledge in this field.

[00:41:53.51] And so I think that's how I got into it. And again, it's not a direct answer. It's a fun-filled answer, but the field for me allows me to lead young men, young women, and allows me to lead people that are worth way more than me. But it allows me to do that because of my experience and my background. I don't know if that's the right answer.

[00:42:20.95] That's an awesome answer.

[00:42:23.02] Really good. We don't always know our path on the front end of this journey, and that's something that-- Matt, I'm going to ask you the same question, but it just really made me think you had a multi-sport background and discovered strength and conditioning along the way.

[00:42:48.12] It just led you down this journey. And people believed in you, and that's powerful. And I think that speaks to maybe the last episode that we did with you, Coach Jost, on mentorship and the power of just having someone in your life that believes in you and that challenges you, really. And so Matt, jump in. What was your path? What's your story?

[00:43:15.80] Ours wasn't as exciting as Bryan's. No, but in all honesty. So I honestly didn't even know if I was going to go to college because I'm the first one in my family to end up going to college and graduating as well. It says a lot because I got two older siblings, and my sister passed before I was born.

[00:43:36.88] So with that being said, when I eventually got into Highland University, I tried to walk on. It didn't work out. I got into a little bit of trouble. It was a learning experience. And then I had to just get a refresh, so I transferred to Bowling Green. And then at that same time, that's when Coach Clausen gave me another chance as far as for football. So I was a walk-on there.

[00:44:06.11] And with that being said, I didn't know as far as with dietetics or with nutrition. I just figured out it said how to deal with food, and I saw diet in a word. And I literally was like you know what? There's nothing else in college I'm interested in at all. I love food. I love eating, so I'm about to just run with this. All jokes aside seriously.

[00:44:27.76] So I literally saw diet in the word, and I said I might just run with this because it looks like I get to deal with food. So I'm going to go this route. And then with that being said, then Dr. Hammody and Dr. Bowchick and Dr. Joe at Bowling Green, they played a huge part in balancing athletics and academics as far as with everything I was doing. And engaging me into the route that I wanted to go towards.

[00:44:53.92] So because in our field, you have clinical. You have community. You have WIC, women, infants, and children. You have private practice, and sports was the only thing I loved. It was my exit and my way of getting out my aggression, and my father and my parents, they kept us in sports all year round in high school.

[00:45:17.11] And football was the reason why I went to college, and that was my route of saying OK, enough athletics and sports. I got to go something with this. It has to do with nutrition. So I didn't even know as far as that you could be in this role as a sports dietician because it was more so those main three was either community, clinical, WIC, and then for some was private practice.

[00:45:43.75] But then after I graduated, then I was working as an assistant, as far as an assistant manager, for a gym with my best friend's father or stepfather before he passed. And it was called Urban Active, which was turned into LA Fitness, so I went to that route a little bit. Then I played indoor football in the AFL for almost a season. I got in trouble there again. So it was a lot of learning experiences.

[00:46:16.90] And then I went to get my master's because of the simple fact of you couldn't do anything with an undergraduate just dietetics. You can't do nothing at all with it. So I got my master's because my professors back at Bowling Green called me back and were like you need to get your master's if you're actually going to get a job in this field. And you've got to do your dietetic internship.

[00:46:37.25] So then I went back, was a teacher's assistant. I was teaching a course there at the food lab there, and then they really molded me as far as how to educate. They molded me as far as really learning as far as what you can do in athletics because the simple fact of they were showing me things with GSSI at the time. And they showed me things as far as sports nutrition and those backgrounds there.

[00:47:04.57] And then after I finally got done with everything and was done my dietetic internship, then went into my own private practice, started my own private practice working-- and as a clinical dietician at the same time at Mary Rutan hospital while also training guys on the side, making their food, delivering it to them as well for professional athletes back at 11athletics.

[00:47:29.20] And then I decided as far as to get my PhD because I don't know anybody with a PhD around me, and I wanted to prove myself wrong. So I was like I might just go for it. And that position opened up at Ole Miss at the time, and I met with Dr. Valiant. We had a Zoom meeting. I loved everything that she was doing with that program, and it was a chance for me to look at how the brain operates a little bit more in concussions and how nutrition can affect concussion recovery.

[00:48:00.13] So with something new and I just wanted to prove myself wrong again with graduating at that level and having that under my belt. So that's actually what inspired me to go into this and then seeing as far as the direction, how to really dive into sports, and then really sports nutrition, sports dietetics really started blossoming at that time.

[00:48:21.05] And that's when I really just dove myself into that field and threw myself into these positions here as a director, as a sports dietician for particular teams in the college setting. And then leading now as a director here at this program.

[00:48:37.57] It's super interesting and I think a great lesson for the younger practitioners, and the individuals who are trying to find their way, and figure out exactly what they want to do. I've heard so many people share their story and their career path and how they got into it. I can't recall anyone that has been oh yeah, I graduate from high school, and I know this is what I want to do. And I get into it, and the next thing you know, you're a strength coach, or a sports dietician, or whatever.

[00:49:17.65] That's not the way it works. It's a struggle. I think it has been a struggle for all of us to figure out what we want to be when we grow up, so to speak. And it continues to evolve. I think we all do. And specifically to Bryan and myself, we've both transitioned our careers from coaching elite athletes on a daily basis to working now more on the business side of things.

[00:49:53.57] So specifically for Bryan, what has the business sector taught you working with a diverse group of athletes that may be a little bit different than your experience from the NBA locker room?

[00:50:10.15] I read Harvard Business Schools [INAUDIBLE] program a little bit, and I also run a bunch of corporate sites. And I run this really fancy space called the Quinn House which is a social club, which I can't believe. But it's interesting. I was so young and naive getting into the business sector even before the NBA.

[00:50:31.40] But I think the biggest difference for me is I feel like I can influence the NBA athletes in a sense of teaching and knowing. Whereas I think actually the opposite. I feel like I've been taught by the business sector how to be professional, how to raise my level. Again, another story. I like to tell stories.

[00:50:56.99] The funny thing is for instance, when I got to working with businessmen, a guy was like hey, I keep calling you, but I can't get a hold of you. I'm talking probably '98, '99 or whatever. And he's like your assistant's not picking up and this and that. He was like look, I call this number. And he calls it. And on the side of my hip's my beeper.

[00:51:18.95] He goes oh, that's my beeper. He goes but you have a voicemail. Well, it just says I'll get back to you. Yeah, but I don't have an office. I just have a beeper. And he's like what? He's like here. Charge me an extra session each month, and I'm just going to pay-- Just buy a cell phone. He's like I need to get a hold of you. And I'm like oh, OK. Cool. This is cool, a cell phone. They weren't not around, but they were definitely not-- I was definitely not owning one.

[00:51:44.09] So something like that would be a lesson that I'm learning. Whereas on the opposite side, Eric and I have discussed this. But there's an athlete that was with a team that was a young player coming out of high school. And we were talking about he's like man, I can't get all my stuff together. The NBA's doing a much better job of preparing these guys.

[00:52:06.02] But he's like I'm just trying to get some cable in the house. I'm like well, I can help you there. I was like we'll just call Verizon. And he's like just call Verizon? What do you mean? So I walked him through the process because you want to teach these guys. So I was like here it is. This guy's going to come over tomorrow. I always go over and follow through to make sure they know that I'm invested.

[00:52:26.37] So I get to his house. Cable guy comes, puts the TV on the wall, and he's like that's it? He's like yeah. He's like wow, that was easy. I said yeah, you can do it next time. He's like yeah. He's like do I have to pay the guy? I was like no. He bills you and everything. He's like wow, this is great. He's like wow. He's like and that's such a big help because I got another problem. I was like yeah? Can you help me with this problem? I said what problem is that?

[00:52:48.95] He lived in a two-bedroom house, and his first [INAUDIBLE] was walking me back to the bedroom. What's he going to do in the bedroom. I have no idea what's going on here. So he opens his door, and all of a sudden, all I see is just stacks and stacks of clothes. And I was like what is this? And he's like well, I don't know how to do laundry, so I've been just going up to the mall and buying clothes every week and just restocking my clothes. So I don't know what to do with this stuff.

[00:53:13.06] And I was like oh, man. And normally, I would teach him how to do the wash, but I just knew he would never do it. So like you said, we got a laundry service to just-- He just put it in the bag, take it, fold it out, and he's like man. This is amazing.

[00:53:27.23] So like you said, I like to educate and teach. So I think that's one of the big differences is that from coming from the professional world in the business world because that's really the world that I'm in. A lot of my businesses is they're educating me on things. And I think my standard is high, but their standard is so much higher.

[00:53:49.79] And whereas in the NBA or even the NHL, some guys, it's just like you think that they know this. But they really don't, and I think that was the major difference. Is that I thought I knew, but I didn't. And they thought they knew, and they didn't. And I think that's a big difference.

[00:54:07.13] It's really interesting. I would say that from my perspective, I've learned so much from both experiences being my time in college athletics and a completely different set of learnings in my time at Gatorade and in the corporate world. I really feel that from a diversity standpoint, where I learned the most was in college athletics.

[00:54:41.81] And I've always felt that a campus or college campus is such a special place where-- Again, I said this before. There are literally people from all over the world. And I had my time at Florida State, a great opportunity to take on some administrative roles. And where I oversaw the men's and women's tennis. I spent a lot of time with really all of the sports, and we had a great group of international athletes from Denmark, and Luxemburg, and London, and Ethiopia.

[00:55:24.62] It was really, really cool to get to know all of these individuals and learn about their culture. I feel like it made me such a better person. And something that I still draw up on today and has helped me in my transition in the position that I'm in now. Not to mention the time management. Matt can really relate to this.

[00:56:02.84] In the middle of the season where you have so many things to do and people pulling you from so many different directions. And you know that if the bus leaves at 2:00, and you're there at 1:55, you're late. No question learning from both sides of it, and I really value both experiences so much and feel so fortunate to have experienced both sides of it.

[00:56:42.87] John, that's a really great point about just the college environment and the college locker room. I've always felt coming from a college football, professional baseball background, I've always felt that the locker room is a pretty diverse place. And we're all working towards one goal here for the most part, and it brings people together. That's powerful right there.

[00:57:05.98] And we had Andrea Hayden. She was with the Minnesota Twins. Now she's with Stanford women's basketball. She was on the podcast last year, and she spoke to that. She was assistant Major League strength coach with the Minnesota Twins. And just talking about how diverse the Major League clubhouse is. Talking about players from Latin America, all over the world.

[00:57:27.39] We occasionally get a player from Europe, or Japan, or Korea. So sport in itself provides a lot to us in terms of what we're talking about, diversity, inclusion. But on the career opportunity side of things, maybe we don't always feel that way. Matt, I want to start with you. What do you think about opportunities in the field? And coaches getting in the door? And just the opportunities that are available?

[00:58:02.75] Currently right now in my field, there are more jobs for less people almost qualified to take those jobs and be very successful in those jobs. And it's not to say as far as it's not a knock on anything at all whatsoever. But as far as for us to be adequately trained, to succeed, there are some people that are taking director roles or taking leadership roles. And are truly just now getting out or have never been exposed to having to be in a situation to be a leader yet.

[00:58:39.89] And it's not truly putting that position or that person in that situation to truly succeed without the adequate support to really give them what they need to be trained, and learn, and adapt in that. So there are a lot of opportunities in the field today. There is a lot of opportunities in the field today, truth be told. There's a roller coaster, a wheelhouse that's always coming about just even from the standpoint of what we're doing in CPSDA and the diversity, equity, inclusion standpoint giving scholarships for those that need it and everything as well.

[00:59:17.22] But at the same time, like I said, there's a lot of opportunities. It's not easy as far as to get into the door, but honestly, I feel like we also need to do better as far as what we are asking for, and who needs to be in those roles, and getting those people in those roles to succeed.

[00:59:37.13] So in the field today, I don't know how it was for Bryan and John as far as for you both, for you guys back then. And then especially with right now, I feel like I'm very lucky, in a sense, because of the simple fact of there's a lot more opportunity and a lot more jobs. And the need as far as visually seeing who we need as far as that's the practitioner, of course of sports dietician, is there.

[01:00:04.63] The dots are being connected now as far as our value into these roles. And a lot of people and practitioners before me, Dave Velvis, and Roberta Anding, and all those individuals that's been around for quite some time. And my old advisor from University of Mississippi, Dr. Melinda Valiant. Making the battles, and fighting those battles to see what is needed and why their role exists, and why they need to be at that table, have a seat at that table. The opportunities are there now. All their battles are now-- They've been done, and now it has opened a lot of opportunities for us.

[01:00:50.40] Bryan, would you agree with that? More opportunities today?

[01:00:55.73] So it's funny because Matt's field is finally getting the respect it deserves. I thought there's a lot of great coaches that did his work, and it shouldn't have. I was picking stuff, and I said let me lean on my nutritionist friend because I shouldn't be doing this. I know my role. I know my field, and I'm not good at this. I don't have the science background that I need.

[01:01:17.81] I could do some of it, but not to the level that Matt could do it. So I'm psyched for him in his field. Whereas I think our field is actually getting pinched, and I think our field is getting pinched because you have sports scientists that now are strength coaches. You now have biomechanics that are now strength coaches. You have some created title of people that think that they can do what we do.

[01:01:39.26] So I actually think it's a tougher marketplace. There's definitely more opportunities and jobs, but I think the field's become such a diverse area of professionals trying to do strength and conditioning. Athletic trainers are all getting their certifications, which is great because they should. So I think if you're solely a strength coach, it's actually harder for you.

[01:02:04.34] Man, that's a great point, Bryan. Because I only have my CSCS, so that I can understand what you're trying to say. That's the only reason why I got it. Not to step outside, but that's still not my lane. But I really only got it so that I could truthfully understand when it comes to working with you exactly how you're going, so I can also mimic the information whenever they say or when I got to put them towards you and your role.

[01:02:26.96] That's why you're a professional. Taking the time to understand where we're coming from, so that you can now apply your field even more effectively. That's why someday, we'll cross, and maybe we'll work together somewhere. That would be amazing.

[01:02:41.87] That's interesting. Being in a position where I can see both professions. I would agree with both of you in that I think there are a lot of opportunities for the growing field of sports nutrition, and it is awesome to see, as Bryan said, the sports dieticians getting the respect that they deserve.

[01:03:11.19] I can remember it wasn't very long ago where there were-- When I got to Florida State in 2001, we did not have a sports dietician. So that was one of my first responsibilities, was to develop the department and hire a sports dietician. So that tells you right there how quickly the field has grown.

[01:03:35.39] And again, I would agree with you, Bryan, in that the strength and conditioning profession has gotten very challenging as far as there are-- And unfortunately, there are some that they say they're a strength coach, and they don't have the experience or the expertise to back it up.

[01:04:00.59] Pulling it back to the topic at hand of the question for both Matt and Bryan. How do we take diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives forward in our professions? Bryan, can you lead us off with this one?

[01:04:25.22] Yeah. I think doing podcasts like this, just getting it out there with the information out there. Just giving perspective on it. Just on record. There's all these offside conversations and stuff, but putting it out there. Hey, you know what? Matt and I have been through this where we try to relate to everything. We try to include, be inclusive. And it's important to do that, and it's something that's important to us.

[01:04:52.04] Also, I think it's the elephant in the room. It's the thing that everyone wants to avoid. And so I think the more we talk about it, the elephant becomes smaller and smaller. It just becomes an everyday topic that it's part of the thing that needs to be taught about. Every conversation should have a part of that, a part of where the difference is. How do you connect that person over there?

[01:05:17.81] Just the more people that have even heard the term inclusion or even thought about the term inclusion. If we can just get it into more people's brains, I just think it'll then be part of the daily topic on a bus ride, on a plane flight, in an airport. I just think it becomes that. It's almost like the hot topic. It's like if you make it, you can put it out there. And then it's going to be part of everything. And it needs to be.

[01:05:45.25] Matty, follow up on that?

[01:05:48.48] I definitely can, and I agree with Bryan 100%. It's one of the things that we need to definitely contribute to our work environment, and where we are, and with our teams that we work with. Because it can't be seen as the elephant in the room. It has to be something that has to be seen as a standard that we address, and that we ensure that we are fitting.

[01:06:12.84] And it's just a normal thing that we are looking towards as far as that we have a part because we have a diverse team. So we need to have a diverse unit and diverse staff as well. And it's not about as far as hiring someone because they look a certain way, or they come from a certain background. And that's what I don't want.

[01:06:30.87] I personally don't want it to be viewed as and seen as. It's just more so about ensuring that you have the ability to make your culture and your team however you want whoever the leader is in that position. That you build that unit to make sure it meets the needs of everyone that you bring into that unit, and into that team, and into that family. Because that's exactly what it is if you think about it.

[01:06:55.95] And it's very important. And for me, what we're doing as far as-- Again, I go back to CPSCA and diversity, equity, inclusion because that's in the sports dietetics field. It's what we're working towards in the work that we're doing and trying to not only have the message as far as being brought across to the table, but also what are the action steps that we're taking to ensure that is being done? And that it's just not being a checkbox? Or a box that you're just checking?

[01:07:27.07] And that's one thing that we have to elaborate on because also doing this work allows people to finally step outside their comfort zone and see things and view things in a situation. Or view things in a way that they have never been exposed to in their upbringing or in their background. And it's the way that we have to have that open mindedness with. So it's very valuable, and it's very important. So that's just my two cents. But yes.

[01:07:55.18] I think that's a really, really good point. Whether you are a sports dietician or a strength and conditioning coach, you're in the field of improving, of getting better, of growing. And whether that is as an individual practitioner or helping your team and your athletes grow and improve.

[01:08:20.11] And if we can help educate the importance of not only the importance, but the fact that by becoming more diverse and more inclusive, you're getting better. You're improving your staff. You're improving your team, and it actually-- It makes you stronger, and it makes you better.

[01:08:45.28] To me, that's something that is really important to know, to understand, and to teach. And to me, that's the next step. It's not just talking about it, but it's really an understanding and being able to help educate others that it's not only important. It makes you better.

[01:09:10.30] Yeah. Inclusion is part of being a better leader. It's part of being a better teammate. It's important to have the conversations like we are right now, and that's something we are working to get better at here at the NSCA. I feel like this is the conversation we could probably go for a while here. But just to be respectful of everyone's time, if anyone has questions, and they want to reach out, what's the best way to do that?

[01:09:40.48] So for me, I'm on Instagram or Twitter and LinkedIn. Instagram, and Twitter, they're all the same thing, Superior Frakes. S-U-P-E-R-I-O-R F-R-A-K-E-S. LinkedIn is just my name as well. End season, I'm very slow at getting back to people, and I do apologize if you have any questions about anything.

[01:10:02.77] But it doesn't take more than 24 to 48 hours. So you could hold me to that, or just honestly, after we converse via direct message, I can give you my phone number. And it's easier for me to text than it is as far as to have on social media because I'm usually just doing the post by. I post something, and I just leave it alone. That's it.

[01:10:28.34] And I'm @BDOOStrength, B-D-O-O strength. S-T-R-E-N-G-H-- T-H. Sorry. And then on Twitter, to reach me on Twitter, it's just BDOO22. And then LinkedIn as well. I'm actually not on social media as much as I probably should be, but I'm trying to raise my kids. But reach out in any of those ways. I have the same thing. I have a lot of things going on, but I will get back to you.

[01:10:58.27] How about you, Coach Jost?

[01:11:00.13] So I'm the old one, old guy that really is not on any social media. So I don't know if email is old-school, but Jonathan.Jost@PepsiCo.com is the best way to reach me. Or you can go to the email, the GatoradePerformancePartner.com and reference me. And I definitely will get back to you as soon as possible.

[01:11:28.21] So forgive me for not jumping in the black hole of Instagram, and Twitter, and the rest of the social media.

[01:11:39.46] I'm trying to get out, man.

[01:11:40.36] Me too. You saved yourself. You saved yourself. Good job. Proud of you.

[01:11:45.31] Matt, Bryan, John, this was a good time. I realized we got to go back and maybe put something in, a link to what a beeper is in the show notes just for everybody tuning in.

[01:11:57.79] Tell me you're old without telling me you're old.

[01:12:00.19] A beeper? What is that?

[01:12:02.59] No, but thank you, guys, for sharing, connecting with our listeners today. We'd also like to thank Gatorade Performance Partner for fueling this episode and continuing to support important conversations to advance the strength and conditioning profession.

[01:12:15.76] If you'd like to learn more and join the Gatorade Performance Partner community, visit GatoradePerformancePartner.com. Big thanks to everyone listening in today. Also to Sorinex Exercise Equipment, a regular sponsor on the NSCA Coaching Podcast. We appreciate their support.

[01:12:31.83] From the NSCA, thank you for listening to the NSCA Coaching Podcast. We serve you, the coaching community, so follow, subscribe, and download for future episodes. We look forward to connecting with you again soon and hope you'll join us at an upcoming NSCA event or in one of our special interest groups. For more information, go to NSCA.com.

[01:12:54.45] This was the NSCA's Coaching Podcast. The National Strength and Conditioning Association was founded in 1978 by strength and conditioning coaches to share information, resources, and help advance the profession. Serving coaches for over 40 years, the NSCA is the trusted source for strength and conditioning professionals. Be sure to join us next time.

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