Nicole Shattuck | The Analytical Coaching Mindset

What does a typical day look like for a sports performance coach? Nicole Shattuck shares her experience working with women’s lacrosse at Duke University, where ample resources fuel athlete outcomes. Start by examining her comprehensive approach to readiness that raises awareness for both athletes and coaches. Guided by data, Nicole uses insights to adapt workouts, manage physical and mental stress, and deepen the athlete-coach relationship. New to lacrosse? Nicole breaks down a detailed needs analysis, outlining workload management for different position groups. Plus, as the Chair of the NSCA Lacrosse Special Interest Group, Nicole provides opportunities for lacrosse professionals to connect. Follow her unique path from a background in business and the private sector to finding her calling in collegiate coaching. Driven by a desire to build a Duke University sport science department, Nicole also recently earned her Certified Performance and Sport Scientist® (CPSS®) credential and reveals how it empowers her relationships with allied health professionals.

Connect with Nicole on Instagram at: @nicole_lilia or by email at: nicole.shattuck@duke.edu | Find Eric on Instagram: @ericmcmahoncscs or LinkedIn: @ericmcmahoncscs  

Join the NSCA Lacrosse Special Interest Group (SIG) online on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Instagram! Plus, get together in person at the Lacrosse SIG Meeting at the 2024 NSCA National Conference in Baltimore, MD. REGISTER NOW at NSCA.com/NSCACon

“I tell my athletes all the time, I can't motivate you, but I can provide you with an environment so that you feel motivated. And ultimately, it's going to come down to what goals you have. If you want to be the best ACC player in women's lacrosse, are your actions lining up with your goals?” 7:05

“I don't just want to say, “Hey, here's the report”. This is a really good place for us to get a bird's eye view and then that's going to start a conversation. It's going to lead to me walking up to an athlete during warm up and saying, “Hey, I saw you really aren't getting enough sleep. What's going on?” Then they feel like their needs are being cared for…” 14:30

“If I sit down with a coach and they tell me, “We win games in transition”. Well, what does that mean? It means that they have to be able to catch and throw the ball and clear effectively. They also need to be able to run up and down the field. So, how is that going to adjust my conditioning philosophy for that team?” 17:10

[00:00:02.69] Welcome to the NSCA Coaching Podcast, season eight, episode four.
[00:00:08.36] I tell my athletes all the time, I can't motivate you, but I can provide you with an environment so that you feel motivated. And ultimately, it's going to come down to what goals you have. If you want to be the best ACC player in women's lacrosse, are your actions lining up with your goals?
[00:00:29.16] And if you're telling me, no, I'm not getting enough sleep because I'm choosing to go out with friends, or, I'm not choosing to take care of myself and plan ahead by preparing meals, then we can, again, not say, ha, gotcha. But it's like, hey, I've got you. This is what's happening. These are the inputs, and now here are your outputs. Are you happy with these outputs?
[00:00:53.28] [MUSIC PLAYING]
[00:00:56.11] This is the NSCA's Coaching Podcast, where we talk to strength and conditioning coaches about what you really need to know but probably didn't learn in school. There's strength and conditioning, and then there's everything else.
[00:01:06.64] This is the NSCA Coaching Podcast. I'm Eric McMahon, NSCA's Coaching and Sports Science Program Manager. And today, we're going to talk about lacrosse. We have Nicole Shattuck. She is a senior sport performance coach at Duke University and the chair of the NSCA lacrosse SIG. Nicole, welcome.
[00:01:27.04] Thank you so much for having me. It's good to be here.
[00:01:29.82] Yeah, you've been on my radar for a while to have you on the podcast. And what a great opportunity. You're the chair of the special interest group. And excited to hear some things that are going on at Duke.
[00:01:44.31] Yeah, so I'm a-- Senior Sports Performance Coach is the official title. So for all intents and purposes, strength and conditioning coach. I was brought on about 2 and 1/2 years ago. And the emphasis for me was to work with the women's lacrosse team. I also oversee right now the entire track and field group.
[00:02:04.00] We are very fortunate in this staff. We have seven full-time staff members, are currently hiring for number eight. So with our 23 varsity sports teams, we're able to really support them in a way that-- not that anywhere I've been previously did it poorly. It's just we can really dig a little bit deeper.
[00:02:24.29] And so I think that's where that whole "sports performance" title comes in is that with my team-- and everybody else here as well. We're able to do readiness type of activities, be at every practice. We can just build those relationships in a way that allows us to support the athlete at a different level.
[00:02:49.41] So we have three weight rooms here. So we have one for football, specifically. Men's and women's basketball have their own facility. And then the rest of the Olympic teams share a weight room. And we have, I think, 39 racks. It's all Sorinex. I mean, we just-- we're very lucky.
[00:03:07.67] So as far as what I do here on a day-to-day basis, I wake up, I do readiness for women's lacrosse. I maybe have some meetings, help out with other leadership areas around here. And then a lot of my afternoon in the spring is dedicated to practices or lifts. So there's a lot of balance, but there's a lot of things, I think, to work around as well as far as scheduling.
[00:03:37.39] Sounds like you have a lot of resources. 23 teams. Seven, going on eight, coaches. And I like that you mentioned involvement with practice because that's something we don't really talk about on the podcast a lot. And what do you see the role of a strength and conditioning coach outside the weight room? You mentioned readiness. That's a new-- that's a relatively new term in strength and conditioning, sports science. How do you view that?
[00:04:08.71] Yeah, so this is something that takes me back to my days at Wofford College. I was working with Josh Medler. And he's currently at Murray State. And what we would do with the football team, they'd come in, they'd fill out a questionnaire.
[00:04:21.63] And it would be, how many hours of sleep did you get? Did you meet your nutritional goals? Where are you sore? What's your mood today? How were practice demands from yesterday? How were your overall demands from yesterday?
[00:04:37.19] And so it was kind of my first real insight to understanding, like, it's not just the reps and sets that you're getting in the weight room. But as a, again, performance coach, what we're here to do is also help our student athletes understand everything. Stress is stress.
[00:04:57.98] So I was able to take that a step further here because, again, resources. So I'm able to get, I guess, a closer look at what my student athletes are doing. I tell them I'm very nosy.
[00:05:16.35] So the readiness questionnaire they receive every morning is something that I've talked about with their head coach. They'll get their little notification virtually, submit everything. And so that's where, again-- we don't have to do it by paper, like pen and paper. Because after the football team at Wofford would write those numbers in, we would give all the sheets to our boss. And he would hand-write them or input them into a spreadsheet.
[00:05:44.34] So it's nice that we have a little bit more technology here where we're able to do that. And then that allows me to get a snapshot and just a bird's eye view of not only those daily inputs that are happening and those external stresses that we're putting on our athletes in the weight room, reps that they're getting on the field, but also then how those individuals are responding to that stress. And so the role of a sports performance coach, I feel, has really taken that turn to help our athletes understand what they have control over. Am I getting enough sleep at night?
[00:06:24.44] And if I had a good day at practice, is it because, hey, am I hydrated? How is my mood right, versus, man, I had a terrible day at practice and I'm really stressed about school right now. Oh, well that makes a little bit more sense. You're kind of trending in the red based off of the numbers that you're telling me. Your readiness is low. Your sleep hours are low.
[00:06:48.59] And not only educating our coaches on what that big picture effect is of consecutive days of training, but also helping our athletes to become better individuals overall. Like, I tell my athletes all the time, I can't motivate you, but I can provide you with an environment so that you feel motivated. And ultimately, it's going to come down to what goals you have.
[00:07:16.88] If you want to be the best ACC player in women's lacrosse, are your actions lining up with your goals? And if you're telling me, no, I'm not getting enough sleep because I'm choosing to go out with friends, or, I'm not choosing to take care of myself and plan ahead by preparing meals, then we can, again, not say, ha, gotcha. But it's like, hey, I've got you. This is what's happening. These are the inputs. And now here are your outputs. Are you happy with these outputs?
[00:07:49.33] So how that kind of goes into my practice planning or my role at practice, I'll go to every practice, warm up the team, and maybe that's part of what I'm educating them on. We bring it into the huddle. And what are we talking about for today? What's our mindset? And are we not only physically prepared, but now are we mentally in a space where we're going to be where your feet are? And after I do the warm up-- and sometimes that's based off of what's our soreness map looking like.
[00:08:26.28] Mhm.
[00:08:26.89] Do we need to take a little bit more time to stretch out our hips, lower body? Or, can I integrate some of my A cells, D cells couple types of plyometrics? What kind of stimulus can we get out of them that day? And then if I'm staying at practice, what group am I working with? It's typically goalies that I'm able to work with.
[00:08:52.09] If the position groups-- so the attackers, the middies, and the defenders might be doing some skill work. Goalkeepers aren't taking shots. Can I get a little bit of conditioning in with them? Maybe it's footwork drill. Maybe it's hand-eye work. And maybe it's sled drags. It just kind of depends on the day and what I've discussed with the coaches, what their vision is for practice that day or that week and how we're able to kind of collaborate with it.
[00:09:17.30] Or, you know, am I working with the athletic trainer on some return-to-play individuals? So this experience with this team for me is exactly what I wanted. I wanted to be able to support a team in that way because I truly believe if we're sports performance coaches, that kind of covers the whole thing.
[00:09:39.20] Yeah. No, I like that. And I think it broadens the scope that we're working as strength and conditioning coaches. Technology has automated a lot of these processes that essentially provide feedback for the coaching staff, for us. It allows us to auto-regulate performance. So you're adjusting practice loads and conditioning volumes and adjusting warm ups on the field. What sort of adjustments are you making in the weight room when you get maybe negative reports about sleep or soreness?
[00:10:12.87] We recently had that because women's lacrosse played a Tuesday game, they come in, have a practice, scout the next day. And we're getting right into it for-- preparation for our weekend game. So they play on Tuesday. And it's a travel game. The readiness report is showing me some lower numbers. And it doesn't matter if they played the full game. 2.5-hour bus ride there. 2.5 bus ride back. They're feeling it.
[00:10:40.51] And so what that allows me to do is make some adjustments for our lift to say, OK, what kind of power output are we getting? If you can do a clean pull and you feel good for it, great. If not, can we do dumbbell jumps, or dumbbell squat jump, or are we doing a box jump? And if I'm looking at the injury report alongside that, do we need to just take out the lower body power movement and just kind of focus on, can we just do upper body today?
[00:11:11.74] So you have to be really flexible in season. And I think anybody who has a team sport, field sport, court sport, whatever it is, you really have to be flexible in season. Is being able to make those changes and giving them some, again, autonomy is a great way to put it. And just to say like, hey, come talk to me so we can figure out what you need today.
[00:11:34.18] But if I have my-- one of my starters coming up to me and they say, my hamstrings are shot, I don't think I can jump today, OK, well, we got to make a switch for that. And sometimes it just helps to even tell them, this is a de-load week. What we get to do is take out a couple reps, couple sets of everything so that-- even that mentally gives them like a little bit of weight off their shoulders, metaphorically, physically, whatever you want to say.
[00:12:02.74] Yeah.
[00:12:04.39] Sometimes it just helps them along to say, all right, like, we're still going to get some work done, but we've got to be able to manage the stress.
[00:12:12.51] Yeah. No, that's really important. And it sounds like you really take a holistic approach from the field to the-- back to the weight room. And I like the emphasis on workload management. It's really relevant. We're hearing a lot about this. But one thing that we lose sometimes with the theoretical aspects of it is, how does this actually get put into practice?
[00:12:38.95] And one thing I'm hearing is that it still relies a lot on subjective feedback from athletes that we maybe plug into some objective system, surveys, other technology systems. But we can also measure that through our jumps, velocity-based training. There's tons of different opportunities now to get feedback on our athletes. So I really like that. It sounds like you guys are doing some cool things at Duke.
[00:13:08.89] I've been fortunate. Like I said, we've got a lot of resources here, but I work with a great coaching staff that allows me to say like, hey, year one, here's what we'd like to do. And we input Catapult GPS, set everything up with our readiness surveys, great. Started them-- every time the team comes in, they do a vertical jump on the jump mat-- counter-movement jump. Excuse me.
[00:13:34.69] And what I'd like to do now is progress that to our force plate testing. And how often can we get into our force plate testing? So it's bit by bit. After every practice, taking RPEs from them. So it was kind of like having this big picture idea and then saying, what am I actually able to accomplish this year? When can I start to integrate?
[00:13:58.74] And so kind of like what we do when we're programming for our athletes. Where do we want to be by year three and how do we start by working backwards, and saying, this is my vision for this group. But you have to have all the-- those other pieces and players on board. If I didn't have a coach who looked at these readiness surveys and said, hey, maybe we need to adjust some things for our starters today, then I don't think it would be as effective. The athletes need to know that what we're doing for them is working.
[00:14:27.78] And I don't just want to say, like, hey, here's the report. It's, OK, this is a really good place for us to get, again, a bird's eye view, and then that's going to start a conversation. It's going to lead to me walking up to an athlete during warm up and saying, hey, I saw you really aren't getting enough sleep. What's going on? And then they feel like their needs are being cared for because, oh, OK, like, my coach cares about me, or they see the changes happening in real-time and they're like, OK.
[00:14:57.68] So it's a-- you said holistic approach earlier, and I think that's exactly it. We've all got to be on the same page and know that the goal is really we want the best for these student athletes. And when they're feeling great, or even good, and they're on the field and physically able to compete, that's going to help us. At the end of the day, put the strongest and most talented players on the field.
[00:15:24.54] So lacrosse is a sport that not every strength and conditioning coach has worked with or maybe not everybody knows a ton about. Can you break down the key elements of the needs analysis for training a lacrosse player?
[00:15:40.85] Sure. [LAUGHS]
[00:15:41.66] I know that's a big question. But common injuries and just some of the key areas that you focus on in programming.
[00:15:50.12] Well, and this is where I'll put the plug for the upcoming human kinetics book. It's called strength training for lacrosse. It is part of the other strength training for-- I think there's football, baseball, soccer, so it's part of a series. And that should be published sometime in 2024.
[00:16:10.55] Awesome.
[00:16:11.60] Yeah, and that, I think, does such a good job. Because I'm not-- I'm certainly not the only contributor on there. But breaking down what makes lacrosse different from any other sport, and it's not just field lacrosse. Now there's box lacrosse, sixes. And the men's game is very different from the women's game. But looking at the field of play, it's about 120 yards by 60 yards. And a couple things to know is that field players have different positions. We have attackers. We have middies and defenders.
[00:16:45.00] Then, the goalkeeper keeps a very small crease area, but it depends. And this is what you're going to have to do is if you're taking on a lacrosse program, you got to meet with the coach. Ask them questions, get nosy. Ask them what wins games. We talk about KPIs, key performance indicators.
[00:17:06.81] And if I sit down with a coach and they tell me, we win games in transition. Well, what does that mean? It means that they have to be able to catch and throw the ball and clear effectively. But they also need to be able to run up and down the field. So how is that going to adjust my conditioning philosophy for that team?
[00:17:25.98] Or, we need-- or we typically play a zone versus a man. Well, a zone, we may slide a little bit more, but man-to-man, that also may mean that we're switching, I'm staying with my player, I need to slide a little bit more and take on different types of attack dodging for one-on-one. So it all comes down to a-- again, a collaborative effort to say what makes the most sense for this team that I'm working with.
[00:17:58.48] So things that make lacrosse very unique is it is a very fast game. I don't think any of my athletes-- you can time and watch them run up and down the field. They're not holding the ball for more than six seconds. They pass it very quickly. So with a stick in hand, they're running up and down the field.
[00:18:20.81] And a lot of that will come down to T-spine mobility, #coretraining. Like, making sure that the trunk is nice and stable for when we do have body contact on offense or defense. Attackers take on a lot of short lateral movements. A lot of times, curvilinear sprints.
[00:18:47.50] And as far as like the needs of various positions, midis will accrue certainly more high speed distance. And even more so if-- again, if you ask your coach and they say, well, our midis play both ways. They play both offense and defense. They're on the attack side and the defensive side. Well, how long do their shifts usually take?
[00:19:12.37] So if a middie is going for a five to eight minute shift, that's another thing you want to understand. You could also work with a coach that says, nope, we run our midis on and off the field. So as soon as they're done on one side, the attacker goes on the other end. So I think a lot of that will come down to strategy on the conditioning side.
[00:19:36.49] So each position will have restraints, more or less, as to where they're going to be situated on the field. The attackers won't go past a certain point. Defenders won't go past a certain point. But midis will go full length of the field, essentially.
[00:19:55.11] Common injuries, unfortunately, for women's lacrosse, it's going to be ACLs, concussions. They don't wear full gear. We have goggles, which is the headgear that just protects their eyes. And a lot of the rules for the women's game are specifically to protect the women from contact from the stick or mostly checking each other.
[00:20:21.22] Yeah.
[00:20:21.96] Whereas in the men's game, it's totally different. They're prepping for collision. They are meant to be taking on body contact, stick checks, and all that. And as far as other types of injuries that we look for; quads, hamstrings, ankle, other soft tissue from overuse or too much too soon, I think sometimes that over-training effect that you might get in a pre-season.
[00:20:52.55] It sounds like-- a lot of common field sport injuries, one of the things that jumps out is the amount of mileage that players accrue up and down the field depending upon their position. And you do hear that when you're talking about workload management in a sport like soccer or different sports that have maybe similar position groups. But what was really interesting is the emphasis on getting to know the system of play that your team is using, especially around the midfielders, the middies. I don't know the lingo, Nicole, so I'm just going to go--
[00:21:31.00] Middies, yeah.
[00:21:31.42] --with it, middie. But, no, I think that's a really interesting perspective for coaches to hear because how great are we at training individual position groups in our respective sports and doing it with quality and intention so that not everybody's running the same program out there? I think that's really, really good. And it's exciting to hear that we're going to have a NSCA lacrosse book and you're going to be involved. And that was a little teaser for the content to come.
[00:22:05.68] That certainly goes into the deeper dive, I'll say. And I think another thing that-- and it's something I noticed last year. I said that we do the vertical jumps every time the athletes come in. And what we're looking for is that 3% decrease or more from their rolling average. So that'll indicate if they have fatigue. It doesn't give you as clear of a picture as force plates will.
[00:22:35.15] But what we noticed was our defensive group, they just had-- and it wasn't anything that was remarkable, per se. But if you took a look at the longitudinal that look for the entire season, it was just this very small slope downward.
[00:22:53.30] And one of the things that I decided to do this year was say, OK, like, if that's going to-- if their fatigue is just building up in that way because of all the decelerations they have, defense, we were finding, just takes on so much more eccentric load because they're reacting to the attackers. And so that will help me adjust, again, what type of lower body exercise are they doing. And do I just need to cut out the eccentric movement for right now in the weight room and just emphasize that concentric movement? Is it the clean pull? Is it a step up instead of a reverse lunge? And different ways that we can help address the needs of those specific groups.
[00:23:41.48] Yeah. No, that makes sense. The eccentric versus concentric load and managing that in the weight room is a really effective strategy for working around workload or injury concerns, other things. I like that that comes through because I think that's a really tangible skill for coaches to take into their coaching with athletes.
[00:24:04.37] Well, and I think too, like, anybody who knows me knows I have-- I've targeted the goalies, more or less, in these past couple of years. Because we've taken them out of a lot of the team running just because if you watch a game, you know they're not going full field. But we've added things like slide boards, pit shark walking, so they're just standing with a heavy load on the pit shark. And they're marching for a couple minutes at a time. Sled drags just to reinforce glutes but also really quick lateral movements we try and get them more of to help them just be a little bit more reactive and powerful in the lower body and not to add too much more to what they need.
[00:24:47.00] Yeah. I think that's a really interesting position group. And so my background's baseball. There's a lot of sports that have elements. Like, say a goaltender, they're not moving as much as other positions on the field, but they're just as engaged in that game. I think of a pitcher in baseball who really doesn't cover a lot of ground, but when you look at heart rates and workload that accumulates, you could say the same thing.
[00:25:18.62] I know Caitlin Quinn is working at Toyota Racing Performance. And when she presented at one of our conferences, some of the heart rates that those drivers have in the workload that they're undergoing, well, they're essentially just sitting there in the driver's seat. I'm really fascinated by that. And, well, we can't always just work with those special cases in those niche groups of goalies. I think it is a really interesting area for us to flex our skill set as strength and conditioning coaches.
[00:25:52.35] Nicole, I want to jump into the special interest group. You're the chair of the NSCA lacrosse special interest group. We're really fortunate to have you. That group's grown a lot over the past year or so and doing some cool things. What are some things we can expect from the group?
[00:26:11.71] Yeah, I was very fortunate to kind of land there. And the e-board that we have is very supportive. So before I took over as chair, they had started a podcast called Outside the Crease. And since I've now found myself as the chair, I get to be the interviewer. So I'm very fortunate to talk to a lot of great-- and just people. But strength coaches and physical therapists who are all really interested in the sport of lacrosse and support it in any way.
[00:26:50.80] So if you're looking for more information there, that's a great resource to go to. We are active on our Facebook page as well. Try to post research that's coming out.
[00:27:02.04] And then another thing we do is-- and this was suggested by one of our special interest group members. He said, hey, I'm in the Midwest. There's not a lot of other strength coaches. I don't get to travel as much with my team. How can I get a chance to meet more strength coaches that are working with lacrosse? And so we started doing Zooms. And did them a couple-- I think once a month in the fall of 2023.
[00:27:27.87] And we call it the "Coaches Crease." And what I love about that is it's just more of an organic conversation. I'm sitting there, asking questions. Everybody gets involved. All different levels of lacrosse. And we've even had people with private sector gyms and physical therapists hop on, researchers.
[00:27:51.36] And then I post them to our site. And members can listen to them. And if you're an NSCA member and certification holder, you can put those towards-- I think it's like category DCEUs, something like that, which is just another way for us to continue to build and provide for our members. So we're doing stuff, yeah. [LAUGHS]
[00:28:14.70] SIG activities are a great way to use your personal development CEUs when you're submitting those. And it's really-- it's a great way to connect with the NSCA. We've seen special interest groups grow over the years. There's close to 25 SIGs right now. Lacrosse is one of the ones that's, I think, grown maybe the fastest.
[00:28:42.45] And I can think of Matt Nein and a few other really impactful contributors over the years that have-- just have a really strong passion for a sport that maybe wasn't always around or didn't have the same popularity as football and some of the other sports that we're working with. But lacrosse is an exciting game. This group, we have a really awesome group of strength and conditioning coaches. And I'm always excited at our national conference when we have our SIG meetings to be the staff liaison and jump in to-- jump into these meetings and engage in the discussion. So a little plug for attending an upcoming NSCA event there.
[00:29:24.15] But, Nicole, that's really great. I think it's awesome that we have this special interest group. And we're starting to put some information out there specific to the sport. We have a new human kinetics textbook for lacrosse that you'll be involved with. That's going to be a really, really high-level resource. For our listeners, if you haven't seen one of these sports-specific books that human kinetics puts out with us at the NSCA, these are a deep dive, as you said, Nicole, into that needs analysis for a sport and also just all the little intangibles that you need to effectively train a lacrosse player.
[00:30:08.63] Yeah. Well, the nice thing about that too, like you said, we go into the needs analysis, but they have a different professional for each. I think there's high school. There's women's collegiate, men's collegiate, and professional that's covered, which is, again, just another layer added to the resource overall. It's really great.
[00:30:31.16] So usually, we hit on this early in the episode, getting into your background. But I want to hear a little more about your path in the field, how you aspire to become a strength and conditioning coach. What led you to-- what led you all the way up to Duke?
[00:30:48.17] Yeah, I think it's been a mix of both good and bad experiences. Like, I've had great coaches. I've also learned from the coaches that weren't as great. Unfortunately, I think sometimes it feels like I just happened upon strength and conditioning. And then other times, it kind of dawns on me that this is really where all my strengths align.
[00:31:12.95] I started in business. Got my undergraduate in business administration and international relations. So, very far from where I've ended up, but always had great experiences in sports.
[00:31:27.09] And when I had started in my professional career in my early 20s, I would go to the gym. That was like my outlet. That was my favorite place to be. And I would go to a 5:00 AM group class because I was working from like 7:00 AM till 7:00 PM.
[00:31:43.35] And I just needed to start my day in a way that I enjoyed. So when I lost my job, I think I was 24 years old. And the person who I would go to for training was like, hey, have you ever thought about this? Like, I think you-- this is where you seem to light up. And I was like, yeah, like, this is-- this might be it.
[00:32:02.76] So I ended up getting certified. Worked a 40-hour week job and supported myself. Would go and take on clients in the mornings and evenings working around this job. And it just kind of seemed to click a little bit more once I started working with a high school crew club team.
[00:32:23.32] So that, I think, was where I met my-- the stars aligned. Like, it's Pittsford Crew up in Rochester, New York, Pittsford, New York. And it was a great group of kids. I just found a different level of coaching, if you will.
[00:32:42.68] So when I started working with that group, I thought, all right, this is where it's at. I started doing a little more research and found the NSCA and decided I needed to be certified and qualified in a different way. I didn't have any issue telling Mr. and Mrs. Smith, like, pick up these dumbbells and let's go to work. But finding how-- like, training can have an effect on performance and those outcomes. And in that team environment with these younger athletes was just-- that made sense to me. So I got--
[00:33:24.28] Hmm.
[00:33:24.71] Yeah, thank you. I got certified CSCS in-- I think it was like 2011, 2012. And at that time, I had already opened up my own studio gym in Rochester. And it was a really neat experience, but I don't love owning a gym. I love coaching, and started to look more, I think, at the time, the NSCA had like a list of mentors.
[00:33:48.55] And I found somebody who worked at Wellesley College, called her because she had a similar story to what I did. And I thought, wow, like, if you can do it, what do I need to do? And I guess that's the longer story.
[00:34:03.86] But once I decided collegiate was the route for me, there was no looking back. I left Rochester in 2016, and took an unpaid internship when I was 29 years old at Metropolitan State University of Denver. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is everything. But at that time, I think my experiences in the private sector, I was really lacking a lot of education. I didn't have, I felt, like the qualifications I needed to really be the best strength coach. And part of that is knowing your stuff.
[00:34:41.93] We have a really big responsibility to take care of these individuals in front of us, not only physically, but emotionally, mentally as well in that way. And I got my-- I worked on my master's degree while I continued interning. I had multiple jobs. I had so many different mentors when I was out in Denver. And that all helped me to kind of-- I'll call it a pressure cooker.
[00:35:04.43] Like, for that year, I was doing so many different things. And I have so many great friends and family members that were very supportive of my goals and my dreams. And, I mean, we made it happen. So long story short, went from MSU Denver to Wofford College, to Bucknell University, and then made it here to Duke. So I'm very lucky, very fortunate, but I've also worked very hard. [LAUGHS]
[00:35:33.59] No, that is an awesome story from the business world to the strength and conditioning world. From the Northeast to out West, and then back to the East Coast, I think that is really cool to hear. I think it speaks to--
[00:35:51.00] I took the long way. [LAUGHS]
[00:35:51.87] Yeah, but what's interesting-- and I think a lot of students are in a hurry to get through school or to get through graduate school, or get a first job, or get into the profession. And in a way, what you experience might have felt like you had to take a step back to take a step forward in a new area, or at least challenging yourself in a new arena to get the education that maybe you were missing to be great at what you do now.
[00:36:25.05] Hey, I noticed you are a CPSS. You took the newest NSCA certification in pursuit of sports science. It touches back on some of the themes that we've covered in this episode today on workload management. What was your motivation to take that next step in your education?
[00:36:44.19] Well, I think a lot of that had to do with staying current and my passion and, like, desire to continue to provide, and be the best for my student athletes is just to get that next level. I was so excited to see when the NSCA was offering that because I was like, oh, this is kind of what I'm looking for.
[00:37:05.34] Yeah.
[00:37:05.59] Because, again, I think the CSCS certification is great, but I think, again, it just adds to that layer of what we do and what I believe a sports performance coach does for their athletes. So the goal for that, I think big picture too, is not only selfishly for myself and my athletes, but also to contribute to this staff here is one of the things that we're trying to build out a little bit more is a sports science department here at Duke.
[00:37:34.00] Nice.
[00:37:34.27] And I was able to have some conversations with people. And I, more or less, was not the only one who identified that need, but I thought that would also be helpful to this staff if I could add to my skill set there. And I think one of the things that I could still work on certainly is the analytics piece, but having an understanding, being able to have those conversations with our sports science or our director of high performance here, and then the people that he is bringing on as interns, as fellows.
[00:38:11.89] And it helps me just, again, have those conversations. Just the same as an anatomy class would benefit me to say, hey, now I can talk to the doctors and athletic trainers and physical therapists in a way that maybe makes them feel more comfortable. Right now, I've expanded my terminology and my skill set with the CPSS and I was pumped to get it, so, yeah.
[00:38:34.63] Yeah. Well, hey, congrats on that. It sounds like you have a great thing going at Duke for yourself, for your role and your contributions to a really, really awesome department, it sounds like. I got to get out there at some point and check it out.
[00:38:48.97] Yeah. Next time you're in Durham, come get a lift, shake some hands, and we'll jam.
[00:38:56.32] Will do. I like it. Nicole, what is the best way for our listeners to reach out and connect with you?
[00:39:03.17] I'm on social media. My personal account is really just personal stuff. It's nicole_lilia. L-I-L-I-A. But I'm pretty active on our NSCA special interest group lacrosse Facebook. Not only Facebook, but also our Instagram that we just started as well. So you can usually find me in one of those places.
[00:39:25.93] But always happy to talk shop or like to make myself available. Because I know when I was in that position, just getting started, or had some questions, even when I was starting to learn about lacrosse, all the people on this e-board now-- [? Tracy, ?] I was so excited to see a Zoom that she had put together with other collegiate strength coaches. Matt was willing to take time with me to talk on a Zoom when I first started here at Duke. Like, we've got such a great group that's more than willing and excited to help and talk.
[00:40:05.48] Perfect. We'll add those links in your contact info to the show notes and a link for the special interest group, so--
[00:40:14.06] Thank you.
[00:40:14.79] --our listeners can engage with that group. It's an exciting group. Lots of good things going on. Everyone, that was Nicole Shattuck from Duke University, senior sport performance coach. Great episode. We touched on lacrosse, workload management, a little bit about sports science, and the really-- how strength and conditioning and sports science come together, and that can help us all in our careers. So thanks, everyone, for being with us. And special thanks to Sorinex Exercise Equipment. We appreciate their support.
[00:40:48.51] Thanks for listening to another episode of the NSCA Coaching Podcast. We value you as a listener, just as we value your input as a member of the NSCA community. To take action and get involved, check out Volunteer Leadership Opportunities under Membership at NSCA.com.
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